Iran set to acquire S-300PTs from Belarus

[Lion of War]

17 January 2008

Image: A Russian-designed S-300 air-defence system launcher. Iran is expected to soon receive two trailer-mounted versions, one capable of reaching targets 75 km away. (Christopher F Foss)



Amid conflicting reports that Moscow has agreed to sell Iran a number of S-300 low-to-high altitude air-defence systems emerging at the end of 2007, Jane's has learned that Tehran is actually in the final stage of negotiations with Belarus for the acquisition of two surplus trailer-mounted towed S-300PT (SA-10A 'Grumble') systems.

These systems were, until recently, deployed near Minsk as part of Belarus's operational air-defence configuration, and include command-guided Fakel 5V55K missiles (with a range of 47 km) and the baseline 5V55R semi-active radar and Track Via Missile (TVM) guided missile (range 75 km).

Defence industrial sources in Belarus told Jane's that although the value of the contract has yet to be finalised, Belarusian negotiators are asking for USD140 million for the two systems (including parts, maintenance and training). The sources noted that while that figure is considered high for older S-300PT systems (the S-300PT entered Soviet service as far back as 1978), the inflated price reflects an awareness of Iran's urgent requirement for such systems and its consequent willingness to pay well, enhanced by the intense international scrutiny placed on Tehran's efforts to acquire missile technologies and the country's difficulty to fast-track acquisition of such systems from other sources.

Further, the price also reflects the risk involved for Minsk in releasing such systems to Tehran - particularly in its political relations with Moscow.
The sources confirmed that after the contract is finalised, the S-300PT systems would be transferred from Belarus to Iran in semi-knocked down (SKD) condition aboard a number of cargo aircraft. These flights will fall within the framework of the many regular flights (including military aircraft) between Iran and Belarus, and will include the transfer of spare system parts as required by Iran.
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/systems/idr/idr080117_1_n.shtml

[KoTeMoRe]

Haha priceless, we won't sell the S300 (but our belarussian cousins will).

I like the old ways, finally "reprocessing" reached russian ears.

[Snoshi]

Janes is ussualy reliable... But two systems? That is nothing..

And 140m for 2 systems is a rip-off. Vietnam got 12 systems for 300..

[KoTeMoRe]

There is the catch...its a sample. Samples come pricey especially when the sale has to be that acrobatic.

[kosse]

That's a lot of money for over 30 years old technology. They must be desperate.

[caksz]

new toy for reverse enginering eh ?

[Snoshi]

That's a lot of money for over 30 years old technology. They must be desperate.

Maybe IAF strike against Syria made speed ed up the deal? p-)

[Lion of War]

Maybe IAF strike against Syria made speed ed up the deal? p-)

Maybe not.


-Back to the topic.I wonder what else Belarus will be willing to pass on over.

[Snoshi]

Its interesting that Russia is not willing to sell S-300 to Iran. So they have to buy oldest version of s-300 for a very inflated price not to mention that we are only talking about 2 systems..

[sosed]

I doubt Iran will buy only two trailer mounted launchers without radars and command centers for that big money. I think they could buy two completes (battalions) with six launchers each. This is old version with far shorter range of missiles than new versions and with radars which are technology from 70s and is more medium than long range SAM, but with still better ECM resistance than older SAMs in Iran military. Together with Tors and home made Oerlikon 35 mm AA guns, Iran slowly build capable air defense cluster. The question is how good are other air defense components as radar network, ELINT network, passive detecting systems, ECM systems and how good are they connected in one good working unity and how good are iranian crews trained.

[Evolv5]

How many missiles are included? Just the ones in the lauchers?
What's the price for a missile and/or how easily can one be acquired (from Iran's point of view, of course)?

[Snoshi]

I doubt Iran will buy only two trailer mounted launchers without radars and command centers for that big money. I think they could buy two completes (battalions) with six launchers each. This is old version with far shorter range of missiles than new versions and with radars which are technology from 70s and is more medium than long range SAM, but with still better ECM resistance than older SAMs in Iran military. Together with Tors and home made Oerlikon 35 mm AA guns, Iran slowly build capable air defense cluster. The question is how good are other air defense components as radar network, ELINT network, passive detecting systems, ECM systems and how good are they connected in one good working unity and how good are iranian crews trained.

Probably radars and command centers will be included. But Janes is usually correct and reliable and it talks about 2 launchers after all it says that Belarus does not need them anymore and why not a lot make money out of it.

[Winger]

Investing in anti-air defense is a waste for Iran. Why invest in something that can be so easily overcome and belittled by your most obvious and likely foe? Perhaps the appearance of effective air defense to put up the aura of a deterrance?

[Brute]

Iran must be feeling the heat, if they're willing to pay 140mil for just two systems.
I think, this is a golden opportunity for Russia to sell off its older, surplus S-300's (which are being replaced by the S-400 anyway) via Belarus to Iran at a good price to finance the acquisition of its S-400s. And for Iran this is the only way to get a fairly modern SAM system right now because, otherwise, they'd have to wait couple of years for the Russian factories to catch up (which are already loaded to capacity), and they don't have two years. If US won't bomb them, Israel will.

[InetWarrior]

Investing in anti-air defense is a waste for Iran. Why invest in something that can be so easily overcome and belittled by your most obvious and likely foe? Perhaps the appearance of effective air defense to put up the aura of a deterrance?

Wrong. Easily overcome? Modern air defence its not easily to overcome. its quaite hard to destroy enemy air defence system... Even old air defence system are a threat to enemy planes...

[KoTeMoRe]

But can Iran duplicate Serbia in levels of concealment and deceit?

[InetWarrior]

But can Iran duplicate Serbia in levels of concealment and deceit?

To some degree, why not?

[InetWarrior]

It appears that recent events mean that we are no longer friends with our Russian cousins...big shock! They, in Putin's wonderland of my dick is bigger than yours (only through an Electron Microscope) are once again flexing their somewhat puny and mostly symbolic muscles.....I for one have had the news disclosed the Russian community is so powerful they don't need any of our help! LOL

I wont argue with the Russian prats who haunt here and demand respect for the rusting and decrepit pile of scrap, which is the Russian Military. But you are not that big yet, your economy is based on one asset. Your military is a piece of Crap. Come on you are selling missiles and crap subs to pieces of crap nations because what you are fooking still that piss poor!

Mods...... if you want me to take a break ok, but for the love of god the Russians on here are the most idiotic bunch of spotty teenagers ever! I am out on ops for 3 weeks from tomorrow so that would be a good sanction!
J:bash:


We talk about Belarus and Iran here. Its a different country than Russia. Putin is Russian president not Belarusian.
I hope that will help you.

[Snoshi]

We talk about Belarus and Iran here. Its a different country than Russia. Putin is Russian president not Belarusian.
I hope that will help you.

I agree... Russia haven't sold any S-300 and like it says in the report, Moscow is against the sell of these systems to Iran.

[sosed]

Buying two S-300 launchers without radar complete is total nonsense because you could not launch missiles and guide them to target without radar complete and that's why I think Iran will buy two completes (units). Investing in air defense is not that stupid as some people think, but air defense is not only buying some SAM systems, it is very complex system which incorporated a lot of components, which must be very good organized and leaded, for what you need a lot of training. The point is that every air defense must included fighter aircrafts synchronized with ground air defense to fill each others gaps and to place enemy aircraft in position for the best effect of fighting. Ground air defense alone could not make miracles, but together with air force it could have a very big weight in wining in air war in defending your country.

[Big Lebowski]

We talk about Belarus and Iran here. Its a different country than Russia. Putin is Russian president not Belarusian.
I hope that will help you.
hehe, i love this place somtimes. it's always good for laughs.

[Snoshi]

Buying two S-300 launchers without radar complete is total nonsense because you could not launch missiles and guide them to target without radar complete and that's why I think Iran will buy two completes (units). Investing in air defense is not that stupid as some people think, but air defense is not only buying some SAM systems, it is very complex system which incorporated a lot of components, which must be very good organized and leaded, for what you need a lot of training. The point is that every air defense must included fighter aircrafts synchronized with ground air defense to fill each others gaps and to place enemy aircraft in position for the best effect of fighting. Ground air defense alone could not make miracles, but together with air force it could have a very big weight in wining in air war in defending your country.

I dont know.. The article is pretty clear

Jane's has learned that Tehran is actually in the final stage of negotiations with Belarus for the acquisition of two surplus trailer-mounted towed S-300PT (SA-10A 'Grumble') systems.

These systems were, until recently, deployed near Minsk as part of Belarus's operational air-defence configuration, and include command-guided Fakel 5V55K missiles (with a range of 47 km) and the baseline 5V55R semi-active radar and Track Via Missile (TVM) guided missile (range 75 km).

[Winger]

Buying two S-300 launchers without radar complete is total nonsense because you could not launch missiles and guide them to target without radar complete and that's why I think Iran will buy two completes (units). Investing in air defense is not that stupid as some people think, but air defense is not only buying some SAM systems, it is very complex system which incorporated a lot of components, which must be very good organized and leaded, for what you need a lot of training. The point is that every air defense must included fighter aircrafts synchronized with ground air defense to fill each others gaps and to place enemy aircraft in position for the best effect of fighting. Ground air defense alone could not make miracles, but together with air force it could have a very big weight in wining in air war in defending your country.

Indeed, your air defense is only as good as your fighter aircraft. Heavy investment in ground to air defense(aside from anti-ballistics) is symptomatic of a lack of good fighter aircraft as well as good pilots. Without both the latter, no matter how much money you spend on the ground components, your system will be taken apart piecemeal and rendered ineffective 'ala Gulf War I. Anti Anti-Air defense has come a long way as well. Early warning and interceptors is where they should be focusing their monies. Just an opinion.

[sosed]

Air defense must incorporated both elements, fighter aircraft and ground air defense, because ground air defense systems could work non stop on positions, but aircraft have to return to airbase for fuel and ammo and in that time ground air defense must cover aircraft on the ground. Heavy investments in ground air defense is symptomatic for fact, that your potential enemy is much bigger and stronger than that your air force could manage and that mean your air force need heavy support from the ground. if you don't have enough time than is better to invest in ground air defense than in air force, if you have enough money and time is better to invest in air force.

[isthvan]

Indeed, your air defense is only as good as your fighter aircraft. Heavy investment in ground to air defense(aside from anti-ballistics) is symptomatic of a lack of good fighter aircraft as well as good pilots. Without both the latter, no matter how much money you spend on the ground components, your system will be taken apart piecemeal and rendered ineffective 'ala Gulf War I. Anti Anti-Air defense has come a long way as well. Early warning and interceptors is where they should be focusing their monies. Just an opinion.

I agree that without good fighter component you air defense will be eventually taken apart...

On other hand Iranians don't have money needed to replace old fighters in there inventory with more capable aircrafts and building modern capable air defense network can provide them some of needed leverage...

And while Iraqi air defense network in early `90s could be considered modern most missiles they used were top of the line in late `60s, early` 70s(Roland being most modern system they had). Even older models of S-300 can still be considered as quite modern systems, generations ahead SA-2 and Hawk variants they use today.

[Snoshi]

Well. Iran needs a very big boost in their AD arsenal... Most of their SAM's are old SA-6,HAWK's, HQ-2's and SA-5's.. Recently they got TOR's, but they are very few in number and without systems like S-300 to back them up makes TOR's avoidable

[sosed]

True. Buying Tors and S-300 is not all, but are very important steps in this way together with home made Oerlikon 35 mm AA guns to modernize their air defense. Bit if they want to use this new SAM systems in best way they have to invest in other important components of air defense like C3I, early warning, communications, ELINT, ECM, passive detecting systems etc. When they choose to have primary air defense in ground air defense, than they have to prepare right strategy and tactics of using their air force, where even older fighters could do great job.

[KoTeMoRe]

Super Bootie, that was spoken as a true believer. Now that your brain farted its shot, please do me personally a favor and count:

Gas=1
Oil=2
Nuclear powerplants=3

That makes at least three assets. Oh and If you're pissed by the effective use of one's sovereignity, please don't be. If you're pissed because your EADS shares are falling like a pile of scrap shot out of the sky, brace yourself. They can go lower.

Regards.


Edit: I see leeway for some and none for others. Go figure.

[Lion of War]

Belarus denies plans to sell missiles to Iran


MINSK (Reuters) - Ex-Soviet Belarus dismissed as laughable on Friday a report by intelligence journal Jane's that it was ready to sell Iran two missile systems for $140 million.
Jane's on Thursday said Belarus, a fierce critic of the United States, was in the final stages of negotiations with Tehran over the sale of Soviet-era S-300PT air defense systems. The report quoted Belarussian defense sources.
"This is untrue. Such information can only induce laughter," said a spokesman for Belarus's security council. "There are no grounds for the story and no grounds for any sale."
Russia denied last month statements by Iran's defense minister that it intended to supply an S-300 anti-aircraft missile system to Iran.
The S-300 missiles have a longer range than the TOR-M1 surface-to-air missiles which Russia said earlier this year it had delivered to Tehran under a $1 billion contract.
The United States and Israel criticized that deal, saying Iran could use the system to attack its neighbors.
Iran is subject to U.N. sanctions over its refusal to halt sensitive nuclear activity that Western countries suspect it wants to master to build nuclear bombs. But conventional weapons sales to Tehran are not banned.
A foreign ministry spokesman said Belarus would abide by all U.N. measures concerning Iran.
Western media have previously suggested that Russian missile systems could be supplied to Iran, possibly through Belarus, which is accused by the United States and European Union of violating fundamental human rights. Continued... (javascript:goToPage(2);)

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1884808320080118

[lightfire]

This thread is doomed. Another month, another thread about S-300 from Russia to Iran. Will this ever be true?