Financial crisis to melt down German federal system

[muck]

Source (German only): Link

Similar to the United States or Australia, Germany is a federation which consists of partially autonomous states. Many of them could be gone in ten years, German governors predict - as some of these states cannot lift their debts anymore. The governors suggest to merge a number of states into others. This has been discussed for a long while because of rather cosmetic reasons, but this time it is serious.
Germany consists of 16 states, three of them are even city states. Also some of the larger states have a large territory to administer but only few inhabitants to pay the taxes for it. The eastern State of Brandenburg for example is by far larger than New Jersey but has only 2.5 million inhabitants.
Proposals range from a meltdown of 4 states to a meltdown of even 10 states.
Germans have unlearned nationalism due to the shadows of World War Two, but in return they have put more emphasis on localism. In fact they do again favour a kind of particularism like it shaped Germany for centuries with dozens and dozens of small states, principalities and shires. Someone from Hesse for example will stress that first and foremost he is an Hessian and not a German.
This proposal some German governors have made is - in smaller relations of course - nothing else than a suggestion to merge Washington, Oregon and California or Victoria and New South Wales just for financial reasons.

I think its kinda appalling to see what this financial crisis can do to a politician's brain. Then again I thought this headline is more interesting than the usual daily evil tidings the media spread.

[cbreedon]

Source (German only): Link

Similar to the United States or Australia, Germany is a federation which consists of partially autonomous states. Many of them could be gone in ten years, German governors predict - as some of these states cannot lift their debts anymore. The governors suggest to merge a number of states into others. This has been discussed for a long while because of rather cosmetic reasons, but this time it is serious.
Germany consists of 16 states, three of them are even city states. Also some of the larger states have a large territory to administer but only few inhabitants to pay the taxes for it. The eastern State of Brandenburg for example is by far larger than New Jersey but has only 2.5 million inhabitants.
Proposals range from a meltdown of 4 states to a meltdown of even 10 states.
Germans have unlearned nationalism due to the shadows of World War Two, but in return they have put more emphasis on localism. In fact they do again favour a kind of particularism like it shaped Germany for centuries with dozens and dozens of small states, principalities and shires. Someone from Hesse for example will stress that first and foremost he is an Hessian and not a German.
This proposal some German governors have made is - in smaller relations of course - nothing else than a suggestion to merge Washington, Oregon and California or Victoria and New South Wales just for financial reasons.

I think its kinda appalling to see what this financial crisis can do to a politician's brain. Then again I thought this headline is more interesting than the usual daily evil tidings the media spread.

Centralisation seems to be occuring more in all Western Countries, even before the financial crisis. In the US, the states are becoming more or less administrative regions of the Federal Gov't. I think it is a sad thing to see in any country.

[AlfredoTP]

Seriously, I am not worried at all! That happened already, and a couple of times, along history, since the Middle Ages... at least.
It's just part of society, which changes our living habits/style, and the whole systems, which lives as we do.
No need to spend brain cells, time, $, etc., on those matters, having other problems to face right know

(Just my 3 cents.)

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

you forgot to mention the 17th state, Mallorca

that would be a tough pill to swallow for the Germans i would think, considering that germany was once an area of numerous states bonded only by a common language

the "new" germany is in fact younger than the USA in terms of foundation

i think it would be sad, i enjoy the regional differences and the Germans seem to still have their healthy disdain for Germans from other regions

[Macs.]

i think it would be sad, i enjoy the regional differences and the Germans seem to still have their healthy disdain for Germans from other regions

...that will not change simply because on "paper" they are together.

Baden-Württemberg is a mix of Baden and Württemberg (What a shock.), and we still hate each other.

The biggest problem would be finding new names. Schleswig-Vorpommern-Mecklenburg-Holstein ? And that's just two states !

[SBL]

The biggest problem would be finding new names. Schleswig-Vorpommern-Mecklenburg-Holstein ? And that's just two states !

As I recall, Germans are pretty good at making cool-sounding acronyms. NAZI, STASI, etc.

[cbreedon]

...that will not change simply because on "paper" they are together.

Baden-Württemberg is a mix of Baden and Württemberg (What a shock.), and we still hate each other.

The biggest problem would be finding new names. Schleswig-Vorpommern-Mecklenburg-Holstein ? And that's just two states !

I've always enjoyed saying Schleswig Holstein. It just sounds German. Geschwindigkeitsmesser is fun too, but unrelated to the topic at hand.

[JCR]

Norddeutscher Bund, obviously.
Seriously, I doubt that Hamburg will cease being a free and hanseatic city after over 1000 years.
Area States, like Schleswig-Holstein or Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (both composites, as the names suggests) can merge, but Hamburg?
Berlin and Brandenburg should merge and call themselves Prussia, even though this will cause Poland to go ballistic, **** bricks or whatever...


On the other hand, there's hardly anything a german can do nowadays that won't cause a tidal wave of racist BS from our eastern neighbours.

[AlfredoTP]

Hey hey, just don't touch my beloved Schleswig-Holstein! But, why with M-Vorpommern? Would be like a culture shock! I would prefer with Niedersachsen, at least they have that Plattdytsch

[Fuschimuschi]

Yes, I want them, then we'd have the North-Sea and the Baltic.

[AlfredoTP]

Well, there's a good point, true! But belonging to the whole Bund, it really wouldn't matter, would it?

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

...that will not change simply because on "paper" they are together.

Baden-Württemberg is a mix of Baden and Württemberg (What a shock.), and we still hate each other.

The biggest problem would be finding new names. Schleswig-Vorpommern-Mecklenburg-Holstein ? And that's just two states !

my girlfriend's father is Swabisch and mother is Badisch, makes for interesting dinner discussions

[Vandervahn]

Most of the modern states are pretty much a post war fabrication anyway, as was the whole country, and have historically been shifted around earlier anyway; arguing from the point of view of regional traditions is thus obsolete.

Another point to mention would be that the earlier fractioned state system was also a necessity because of lacking communication methods, requiring rather small administrative districts to be effectively governed; with our technology that is lightyears ahead of even the post war times that point has outlived its usefulness as well.

Not to forget is also the increase in democratic justice in the Bundesrat, which at the moment shows a heavy power inequality towards the smaller states; by grouping at least a few of the lower population states there could be a more just distribution of seats and power.

Breaking up "traditions" is always a pain, but sometimes reason has to prevail. I dont think we need individual governments for states with less than 3 million inhabitants.

[Kitsune]

@muck:

That is all nice and well, but still it would be better if you would be a bit more objective and matter-of-factly in your way of putting things, especially here on this site, where many readers do not exactly know much about this strange country called Germany. You are doing similiar stuff as many of the people which call themselves "journalists" these days, namely, you are mixing fact and fiction, report and opinion, only to top it all off with a misleading headline.

Statements like:"Someone from Hesse for example will stress that first and foremost he is an Hessian and not a German" are - in my honest opinion - simply wrong. Regionalism in Germany is - in my opinion - not stronger than in many other states which are federally or provincially structured (like Switzerland, the US or even China) and I know very few people (zero actually) who say that they would be a Hamburger, Berliner, Hessian or Bavarian but insist at the same time that they would not be German. Indeed, if that would be so, there would be strong separatists movements everywhere, but it is rather that there are virtually no separatist movements of any noticeable influence anywhere in Germany. Not even in Bavaria.

Then the headline: "Financial crisis to melt down German federal system." That suggests that it would be already decided. But not only that this matter is not decided, it's not even in beginnings of the process to be decided. It's just that some politicians, which, with the exception of Mr. Struck, are not exactly heavyweights in the business, are demanding that the number of German states should be reduced. You may have noticed that lots of politicians in Germany are demanding lots of things all the time - and many of these do never happen. Chances are not so bad that this could be one of them.

[Toolhead]

well god damn Germany was my fallback plan, where do I move to now?